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Is this RETARDED or is it just me?

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u3dreal
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Post by u3dreal »

all of them .. thanks by the way ...

I just talked to dave .. he'll send me his script ;)

So lets hoep he got around this ..

cheers

Gregor ;)
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Frederik
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Post by Frederik »

Excellent...! :D 8)

And you're welcome! ;)
I expect to receive a CD containing the models as well, one of the following days... ;)

Cheers
Kim Frederik
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Post by u3dreal »

Ok i'm on it ;)

will post in testscenes when done ;)

cheers

Gregor ;)
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Fletch
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Post by Fletch »

Whoa... my internet goes down for a few days and I miss THIS thread...

but back to the original topic, the reason I say that it's retarded is that it basically sets up a scene perfectly for Vray for you, and you are supposed to buy Max, Vray, and the CD, then render it... THEN PUT IT IN YOUR PORTFOLIO AND CLAIM IT AS YOUR OWN WORK!?!!! NOW THAT'S RETARDED... or at least, it's completely a lie. My 5 year olds could then claim they rendred them... which is ridiculous... that doesn't mean they are the 'creator' of the image.

But I'm glad to see you all have discovered a use for the scenes.

the thing that Vray does well, and Maxwell, but KT seems to lack, is that often intersecting objects seem to float, one can say it's a problem of the model, but still, the same model will be rendered better with Vray or Mwell when it comes to intersecting surfaces, such as railing to beam on wall, etc... wall to floor, the light should change significantly enough for the eye to notice where the two surfaces approach zero distance, but it does not in KT, I'll post some examples of this weekness.

I know, I know, it's the materials, or the model... but still, I think that Vray and Mwell and Mray all do a little better in this area than our beloved KaTie. :(
Attachments
Floating_Example_MLTB5.jpg
Floating_Example_Sponza.jpg
clipi
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Post by clipi »

The floating object problem is also present in other rendering engine
including VRAY
check this out.

http://www.vray.info/topics/t0093.asp


I reamember long post about it on cgtalk and cinema 4D. There are ways around this problem.
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Post by Fletch »

yes, and no... I do agree that (as mentioned above) modeling can fix this a bit, but as you know, modeling everything with a fillet is not practical in real-life situations for an architect in a hurry. Also, in MLT at least, I would expect the two adjacent materials to cause the light bouncing between them to interact a bit more noticeably and realistically... as it did in his example with better irradiance map settings... even with the 'bad' model.

(in my defense) I have been trying to model my wall base boards with a bevel on them to make them a bit more realistic.

I wish there was a tutorial for KT on how to get the bevel effect to work properly.

thanks for the link, though, as it shows me it's not an isolated problem... and even Vray users have to struggle w/ it. :D and they paid hundreds of dollars for it - he he suckers!
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Post by clipi »

It seems that "Bent" normals as expalined in this 3d lights tutorial help with removing the floating object effects.
check out

http://www.3delight.com/en/uploads/docs ... ht_37.html
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Post by u3dreal »

How about using "KT Bevel" modifier anyone tried that ?

cheers

Gregor
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Post by Fletch »

ok... I read it... still don't know what in the world it has to do with me and KaTie... I don't know where/how I could bend a normal even if I got it to show up. But I agree that this is what we are missing... that look.

I was thinking that perhaps if I ran an Amb. Occlusion rendering and overlayed that in Photoshop over the MLT it would make the floating go away?! What do you think?

@u3dreal:
I ran some tests w/ the bevel feature, it doesn't work with SU imported mesh.

I tried the bevel on the material and it's weird. I don't get it - or it's uncontrollable for me.

Here's my result...
Attachments
BevelBox_PPTweb.jpg
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Post by giannis »

i have something to say about this... that sometimes that floating
of objects is actually correct! It can be seen in the MLT render you've
made which is 100% true. Usually, in reality, we have some dirtyness
in corners or not so high reflectivity and this is why we get these
visual cues. Otherwise, mathematically, you don't expect to see
great variance in the radiosity evaluation near corners.

But i agree for the photon map version, that sometimes the look
can be quite flat and increasing this bad effect.

giannis
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Post by Fletch »

OK - I FOUND IT!!!

In Mental RAY images, they get these 'floating' problems to go away by setting the ambient occlusion setting in the materials themselves... they can adjust the 'strength' so to speak of this ambient occlusion effect for any material... this is why beginners or Mray users in a hurry will often get floating, or extra dark corners, their amb occ. is set too light or too dark.

you DON'T HAVE TO BE a member of Vizdepot you can read this fascinating threadwith all their exampleson (this great Test Scene to play with in KT!!!!) (YOU MUST SIGN IN to view their .jpg examples, but I'll post the first one here for you.)

if someone would be so kind as to convert the Scene to .3ds or .xml for us!?! please share it here!
Attachments
Classroom_mr.jpg
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Post by alex »

Bumping out this old thread... could anyone convert the file Fletch linked in his last post ?

BTW, 3ds or skp format would be great as I would like to texture it :grin:
Alexandre Bagros-Murat

Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
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Post by Fletch »

hey! thanks for the reminder! I have Max at work now... here's the .obj. (only one mat.) and SketchUp file :!: (this was not fun nor fast)

obj 3.1Mb - Blender preset (quad faces) (only one mat. in the file, sorry) hope you can material it up in Blender?
obj 3.6Mb - DeepExploration format export from Max + tirangulated faces (only one mat. in the file, sorry)
.dwg 7.4Mb (Autocad file format export from Max broken out into parts - to try importing w/ SU for materials)
.3ds 2.12Mb - export (includes Max texture coords)
.fbx 5.4Mb - V. 2009.0 for use w/ Revit, can be converted to other formats w/ some programs like Deep Exploration. (brings lights, but doesn't apparently bring Mray specific lights, converts them to nearest equivalent)
SketchUpFormat 6.8Mb (in bite-size parts)

I was able to open the blender-compat. .obj version above into KT, but the normals were bad, and some smoothing was missing, and it's all one single mat... but you can set the diffuse on it to white and set sun & sky and render it.

So I started the diff. work of converting the ACAD into SketchUp and broke it into parts. If you can get the tables and chairs into components and share them back, it would be helpful. (And the radiators) thanks.
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Post by alex »

:D
Alexandre Bagros-Murat

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Post by sintra »

Thanks for your efforts Fletch :D
Kind regards

Darren

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